Julie Elliott Labour, Sunderland Central
Order. I remind hon. Members to bob even if they have put in to speak, so that I am clear on who wants to speak.
John Whittingdale Conservative, Maldon
Thank you, Ms Elliott. I begin by congratulating Carol Monaghan on obtaining the debate. She was a valuable member of the delegation from the British group of the IPU that I took to Armenia a few weeks ago. It is good to see all the other members of the group in the Chamber today; I suspect all of them will wish to contribute to the debate, with the exception of Lord McInnes, who I am sure is pursuing these issues in the other place. I thank the IPU for arranging the visit and Joe Perry for accompanying us. It is also good to see His Excellency the Ambassador here in Westminster Hall today; he has been hugely helpful.
I think we all felt that to be in Armenia at that time was extremely valuable. I have been to Armenia five times over the past few years, although that is a small number compared with the visits that Baroness Cox has made; indeed, she is known as the Angel of Artsakh because of her numerous visits. However, on a previous occasion I was able to visit Nagorno-Karabakh to talk to the Administration at that time. I did so because I believe that one of the most important things for us to do as Members of Parliament is to hear the arguments from both sides and see things for ourselves. I was very disappointed that the consequence of my simply going to Nagorno-Karabakh was that I was blacklisted by Azerbaijan; indeed, I believe that I am still blacklisted by Azerbaijan, simply for visiting Nagorno-Karabakh and holding those talks.
The hon. Member for Glasgow North West has described what I have to say were extremely moving meetings that we held with the refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh. Whatever the rights and wrongs, to listen at first hand to their reports of the suffering that they endured was a very emotional experience—particularly some of the tales about how, without being given any notice, they were dragged from their homes and forced to march to neighbouring Armenia, which took a number of days. Not all of the people who set out made it to Armenia; some died on the way.
I pay tribute to the people we met in Jermuk, particularly the governor and the mayor, for the way Jermuk has opened its doors and welcomed the refugees. They continue to give them support. However, 100,000 people have moved into Armenia from Nagorno-Karabakh and that has imposed enormous pressure, so I absolutely endorse the calls for us to give them support.
I will say just a little about the conflict that has been raging for many years between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the status of Nagorno-Karabakh. It is the case that Nagorno-Karabakh is within the borders of Azerbaijan, but it was populated by Armenians. It is also true that a number of Azeris had previously been displaced. However, I do not want to get into the arguments about sovereignty and the history behind them. We have a humanitarian need to support refugees.
We were also privileged to hear from the Catholicos of All Armenians—His Holiness represents all Armenians —about the impact of the conflict on the priests and the churches in Nagorno-Karabakh, which is also a matter of serious concern. The status of Nagorno-Karabakh has been the cause of repeated conflicts and tensions between two neighbouring countries for decades, although there now appears to be a possibility of resolving the conflict and reaching a peaceful settlement.
We were extremely privileged to have a meeting with Prime Minister Pashinyan, who expressed to us his wish to achieve a peace and the plan he is putting forward to achieve peace. One of the most remarkable things about the plan that is being advanced by the Prime Minister of Armenia at the moment is that it does not contain any territorial ambitions to regain control of Nagorno-Karabakh. That has been the subject of some criticism, as we heard from members of the opposition in Yerevan, but it is a realistic recognition of what has happened and an attempt now to try and attain a peaceful settlement.
There are still issues to be resolved, in particular the issue of the corridor connecting Nakhchivan to Azerbaijan. Those are both Azeri territories, but the corridor will go through Armenia, which—quite understandably—believes that any corridor through its own land must be controlled by Armenia, although they are open to negotiating free access to ensure that it is possible to travel easily between Nakhchivan and Azerbaijan.
However, despite the apparent opportunity that now exists to obtain a peaceful settlement—we heard repeatedly from Armenians their desire to do so—in the last few hours the Prime Minister has issued a statement saying that Armenia could be at war by the end of the week, because Armenians believe that Azerbaijan continues to have territorial ambitions not just to take back control of Nagorno-Karabakh, as it has done, but for Armenia itself. So it is a very fragile situation.
As leader of the UK delegation, I met members of the Azerbaijan delegation to the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe when I was in Vienna a couple of weeks ago. They are absolutely adamant that they have no aggressive intent towards Armenia and that this is propaganda being put out by the side of Armenia. Yet even while we were in Armenia, four Armenian soldiers were killed in the continuing conflict around the border. We were also taken up to see territory that is undoubtedly Armenia but is still under occupation by Azerbaijan.
There are some serious issues to resolve, but given the expressions of willingness to reach a settlement that are being made by both sides, now represents an opportunity for anything that we can do to facilitate that—I will be interested to hear the Minister’s view—because there are wider strategic issues at stake. Armenia is a former Soviet country. It has a Russian military base and has been seen to be closely allied with Russia. However, partially because of the feeling among people in Armenia that they received no support from Russia when they were under attack, there is a real anger and a wish to break away and move closer to the west. That was something else we heard when we were there; indeed, Prime Minister Pashinyan has been quite courageous in already making clear Armenia’s willingness to leave the Collective Security Treaty Organisation of Russia and its former satellites. His ambition to move Armenia closer to the west is in some ways not dissimilar to the decisions taken in Ukraine 10 years ago when it, too, decided that its destiny lay not with Russia but with the west and the EU. In the same way that we supported Ukraine in its ambition, we should be supporting Armenia in that.
I came back from Armenia in some ways encouraged that that was its clear decision, and that it saw its future lying in closer relations with this country. At the same time, a dangerous situation still pertains between the two neighbours. I think that there are opportunities to help resolve the situation that are perhaps greater than they have been for many years, so if there is anything that we can do, I hope we will work hard to achieve that.
